A Fictional Interview with Benjamin Franklin

at the Assembly Room and George Washington’s Rising Sun Chair

TRAVEL IN TIME WITH DAN   |   The Assembly Room, Independence Hall, Philadelphia — September 1787

⚠️  AUTHOR’S NOTE: The following is a fictional historical interview. Benjamin Franklin (1706–1790) attended the Constitutional Convention as a delegate from Pennsylvania. James Madison’s notes record Franklin’s remark upon Washington rising from his chair — carved with a sun on the horizon — that he could now say the sun was rising rather than setting. The chair’s Liberty Cap, cornucopias, and sheaves of grain, and the fact that the mahogany itself was produced by enslaved labor in the West Indies, are documented details. The historical facts are real. The dialogue is creative fiction.

📍 SETTING: The Assembly Room, moments after the final vote. Most delegates have filed out to sign. An elderly man remains near the front of the room, still looking at the empty mahogany chair Washington has just vacated.

Dan: Dr. Franklin, you’ve been staring at that chair for months. What were you actually looking at?

Franklin: A sun, carved into the wood behind where our president sat. For the better part of this summer, I genuinely did not know whether that sun was meant to be rising or setting. Neither, I suspect, did the carver. It is remarkable how much time a worried mind will spend staring at ambiguous furniture.

Dan: And now, with the vote finished, you’ve decided it’s rising.

Franklin: (A small smile) I have decided to declare it rising, which is not quite the same thing, but I find declarations have a way of becoming true if enough people are willing to work toward them. A room full of exhausted, disagreeing men needed a sign to walk out on. I gave them one.

Dan: There’s a harder truth sitting right next to that hopeful one. That chair — beautiful mahogany — was built with wood cut and worked by enslaved hands in the West Indies. And the document you just finished protects the very institution that made it.

Franklin: (The smile fades, but he does not look away) You are right to say it plainly, and I will not soften it for you. We built a house of liberty on a foundation we knew was rotten in places, because the alternative on the table was no house at all — thirteen quarreling states, easy prey for any European power patient enough to wait us out. I tell myself, and I have not fully convinced myself, that a flawed beginning we can amend is better than a perfect argument that never gets built. History will judge whether that was wisdom or convenient cowardice. Likely some of both.

Dan: That’s an honest answer. Let’s talk about the negotiating itself. You spent a career getting people who despised each other to sign the same paper.

Franklin: Leadership, young man, is rarely the art of getting agreement. It is the art of getting enough people to accept an outcome they did not fully want, for reasons they can live with tomorrow morning. I have negotiated with kings, financiers, and delegates who would not share a dinner table willingly. The skill is identical in every case: find what each side cannot live without, and build around it.

Dan: Any advice for people staring at their own uncertain chair right now — their own rising-or-setting-sun moment?

Franklin: If you are not the least bit uncertain, you are probably not doing anything worth doing. I sat in worry for months before I permitted myself one sentence of hope. Earn the hope. Don’t skip to it.

Dan: Good advice. Thanks for your time today, Mr. Franklin.

 

The Assembly Room’s mahogany chair still sits where Washington presided over the Constitutional Convention, its carved sun the same ambiguous symbol Franklin transformed into a lasting metaphor for the American experiment. The chair’s origins in enslaved labor, and the Constitution’s own compromises with slavery, remain part of that same room’s story — a reminder that our founding was neither purely heroic nor purely damning, but genuinely both. The leadership lesson: symbols can inspire people through uncertain times, but real leadership also requires the honesty to name what those symbols leave out. As we approach America’s 250th birthday, the question Franklin’s chair still asks is whether we’re still rising — and whether we’re honest about who paid for the furniture.

Uncovering History. Inspiring Leadership.

📺 Watch the episode: YouTube | 🎙️ Listen to the podcast: Spotify | 📖 Read the blog: granddaddyssecrets.com | 📚 Dan’s book: Travel in Time in the Northeast